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Building the agency you want to own (featuring Chris Williams)

Practical advice to help you enjoy entrepreneurship
Chris Williams

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On this episode, Chip is joined by Chris Williams. The pair discuss what it takes to create an agency that you are happy to own and delivers the results you want.

Chris talks about how he used to be an agency owner who spent 16 hours a day grinding away at a business that didn’t generate the kind of returns that it should. He explains some of the steps he took to get on the right path for him — one that lets him spend less than an hour a day on agency work. He shares his experience with members of his Elite Agency Inner Circle group on Facebook.

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About Chris Williams

Chris Williams has over 20 years of experience in entrepreneurship, for-profit leadership, and socially responsible market engagement. He has helped creative agencies build wealth and agency owners develop innovative winning strategies. His expertise includes lead generation, creative team building and allowing owners to focus on what they do best. Apart from leading his own agency, Chris hosts a private mastermind for creative agency owners looking to scale and optimize their businesses.

Transcript

The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.

Chip Griffin
Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host Chip Griffin and I am very pleased to have with me today, my friend, Chris Williams, he has a dog and likes to paddleboard. How’s that for an introduction, Chris!

Chris Williams
It is perfect. That’s the best introduction I’ve ever had… my two passions in life.

Chip Griffin
It’s probably the most unusual that listeners have heard on this show. But we were we were talking in the pre show and figuring out how to start the show off and well it just sounded like a fun way to do it. So tell us tell us first about your dog Chris and then you can tell us about the rest of of why you’re actually here.

Chris Williams
So I have a hand-me-down dog His name is blue. I can’t we down dog. What does that mean? The one of the days here in our community lives in a zero lot line down the street from us. And so they found this puppy outside their horse stable and it got bigger than zero lot line. So now we have what looks like a yellow lab but not quite right missing a few brain cells but he’s a sweet boy. He hangs out with me all the time he’s laying here in the studio.

Chip Griffin
You hear you heard it here folks, this is this is something you do not hear on other agency business podcasts.

Chris Williams
We get right to the point of things. This is this is what really matters.

Chip Griffin
Absolutely. So, so it so when you are not paddleboarding or playing with your brain cells, short dog, and mccamey down dog, I guess? What is it that you actually do and why did I invite you here?

Chris Williams
Good question. So, so truly blue and I and the paddleboard spend a lot of time to go we have five kids, Jill and I do we travel a ton. We have a lot of playtime. I work less than 30 minutes a day and most days that don’t work at all. And it’s and we have a growing thriving agency. That’s fantastic. And and what I do is I love figuring out time efficiencies. I’m kind of a geek when it comes to time and how to save time. And so I’ve just used our businesses over the years as a as kind of a lab a place to experiment. On what actually gets the owners time back allows profitability to go up and lets people live their lives.

Chip Griffin
And that’s why we have businesses or It’s why we should have businesses, right?

Chris Williams
Like on the risk of entrepreneurship if you don’t get the rewards Hmm, I wish more folks got the reward. You know, we hear so many people chipping on both just frustrated with, with how, you know, they got into the dream and yet the money and the time freedom just aren’t paying off like they thought and that’s, that’s so needed.

Chip Griffin
So let me drill into this, this 30 minutes a day thing because I you know, I know agency owners are listening and saying, Okay, come on, seriously. 30 minutes a day. Can you really run a business in 30 minutes a day? I’m gonna go out on a limb and imagine that you haven’t always been able to spend 30 minutes a day It took something to get there.

Chris Williams
Yeah, I did. So um, I was it was probably seven, eight years ago, I was working 16 hour days, like we do not making enough money like we do. And I kept hearing about this concept called the four hour workweek by Tim Ferriss write that book. we’ve all read, and none of us had a life change. And so I read it once I was like, That’s crazy. There’s no way and I was like, What if I just did everything he said to do in the book. So everything that applied to me in the book I literally started doing and literally within four months, my income tripled. And my time was cut down to four hours a day when at the four hour workweek yet, but I was like, Oh my gosh, this works. I hired staff just as simple VA structure one or two days to help me with just calendaring and emailing. And then I started delegating more and more and building that team. And and then I started getting into higher ticket sales and started it freed up once you had time freed up all sudden, my mind got freed up and I was able to see opportunities for clients see better ways to sell see places where I could charge more, be more profitable, and it just took off. It just, it just simply works. And I’ve just honed that over the years. By I bet eight months in, I was doing the two hours a day. And then slowly it’s gotten down below 30 minutes a day or a lot of days where I don’t work as I built my team,

Chip Griffin
right? So, like you I read the four hour workweek and and I think that there are a lot of good principles in there that really anyone can apply not just business owners, but any kind of, you know, worker who’s in a leadership role of some sort and can apply. My issue with that book has, in part always been that Tim Ferriss clearly works more than four hours a week, right? He spends more than four hours a week doing media appearances and his own podcasts. So it’s clear to me that while he preaches it, he doesn’t necessarily live it. And so that’s been one of my concerns in people sort of looking and saying, Okay, well, I can be Tim Ferriss and four hours a week. And really, you can become more efficient and you can get down to four hours a week or 30 minutes a day, but you have to be realistic about what you’re going to be doing in that right. I mean, you Can’t you cannot be Tim Ferriss in 30 minutes a day?

Chris Williams
No, no. And Tim admits that in a few interviews I’ve heard him on, I don’t follow Tim very closely anymore. I used to when I was kind of diving into that stuff, but he admits that there’s other things he does now. But his premise was, hey, if you can build the machine that pays for your lifestyle, and manage it in a very small amount of time, then you can be freed up to do things. And since then, he’s built on that. And that’s what I’ve done as well. I’ve built multiple businesses since we figured that out, because all of a sudden, I have staff and I have time. And as entrepreneurs, you know, all of us everybody listening and watching us right now. We’re all crazy brained. We love thinking of 10 new ideas at once. And it gives me It gives me space to sort those out and play with the next idea without having to worry about the bills. It’s like, right, like you get to be an entrepreneur as a hobby. No,

Chip Griffin
right? Yeah. And I think that you know, if an agency owner you know, takes a look at the prints, pulls in that book and maybe they take a look at Built to Sell, which is another great book that helps you think about the systems and processes, right. And I am a systems and processes guy, huge believer that that is how you maximize profitability, you can grow efficiently and you can get to, you know, whatever the amount of inputs you want to put are, whether that’s, you know, 30 minutes a day, four hours a week, 20 hours a week, I mean, maybe even just as a normal 40 hour week instead of an 81. Right? I mean, you know, whatever you want you can get if you’re building these proper systems and processes, tell me move forward.

Chris Williams
Yeah, so true chip, and I love the kind of stuff that you teach because you’re teaching people like like all of us as agency owners, you’re teaching everyone how to be that CEO or CFO or Chief Operating Officer, you’re getting that C suite view of here’s how to run your business not here’s how to do everything in your business, but here’s how to actually be the boss, step back. Let others help you and get systems people processes all that line. ups and make wise financial decisions, all that goes together. And that’s, that’s the beauty of, of people who are entrepreneurs learning from what you’re teaching. By the way, anybody watching listening chip didn’t ask me to plug all this. It’s just the truth. Once you once you learn how to look at your business like a CEO, then all sudden your business changes. And it changes because we change, I found that I was the biggest hurdle I was the weak spot in my business. It wasn’t my staff that I was frustrated with. It wasn’t the problem client I was frustrated with. It wasn’t gonna have enough cash flow early on or working too much. It was me. And when I learned how to be the right boss, the right CEO, then all of a sudden everything started changing.

Chip Griffin
Right? And it’s, I mean, really, it’s about trying to make sure that you are that you’re spending your time wisely. Right. And as you say, you know, not necessarily knowing how to do and getting involved in even worse every aspect of your agency business which I see all the time. So you need to ask yourself, would you pay someone your hourly rate to do the task that you’re doing right now. So if your hourly rate is 234, hundred dollars an hour, whatever it is, and hopefully it’s, you know, at least somewhere in that range, and you’re not, you know, billing out at 50 bucks effectively an hour or something like that. But whatever your effective hourly rate is, would you pay someone to do what you’re doing right now? And if you wouldn’t, you probably shouldn’t be doing it either.

Chris Williams
So true, that’s a great way to look at it. It really is it flips the thing around and lets you measure it actually.

Chip Griffin
I think it’s it’s a it’s a, it’s a framework that allows you to think about where you sort of take yourself out of the equation, right? Because I think that the biggest challenge that any entrepreneur has is it’s it’s hard to look at themselves. And so if you imagine someone else doing what you’re doing, what would you tell them about that?

Chris Williams
Yes, yes, so important looking at ourselves, I’ll just come back and stay on that. Anybody who’s is in this entrepreneurial journey, we are We are the hubs that make it all happen, where the ball of energy that makes it happen, we’re pushing, pushing, pushing. And when we get ourselves, right, we get figured out when we start even incrementally making those small changes, to step up, be better at time management, be better at financial management be better at having those tough conversations with a team member. Those things, man, they just change us and and they change our businesses exponentially.

Chip Griffin
Right? And, you know, look, I mean, in the early stages of a business, you know, you’re gonna have to do some of those things. Right? So if you’re, if you’re in month one of your agency, you can’t apply that same lens, right? Because, you know, chances are you are doing a bunch of things at that point that you wouldn’t pay someone else to do but it doesn’t make sense to just yet because you’re not, you know, cashflow positive yet. But if as you’re growing if you start looking at that, that’s how you get down to you know, your, your appropriate number of input hours per week into each business and or like you, you start starting new businesses, right, so you’re not just limited if you will, by the one thing And so so why don’t we talk about sort of the what you’ve built up? Because, you know, you do agency work, but you do other things, too.

Chris Williams
Yes. So our agency serves surgeons in sub specialties in really unique niche communities around the country around the US, we don’t we listen to. And that’s what our team does. That’s what I spend very little time doing. That. That agency is freakin awesome. It’s so fun to be part of it. And see what our team does is they build and grow surgery groups that are helping communities so fun. And Was that your first agency? What’s the fourth, fourth, fourth, fourth digital agency and before that, I owned a financial advisory firm. So I have a very data driven brain, which is where a lot of this comes from, and sold that in 2011. And, and it’s been been great. So the the fourth agency we’re in we’ve we’ve changed agencies because we’ve shifted and I don’t want to encourage people just to constantly swap brand swap agencies chasing the next shiny object that wasn’t at all. We changed because we were we were doing During the research and seeing there was a niche that we could follow, that was a significant enough shift, where it was better to maintain the products and services we were already offering to an existing agency market, but actually shift and go into this new space in a fresh, clean, new way. So we would either sell the clients or the group to a senior staff member, or to another agency who was going to be able to do that better long term, but we knew we wanted to follow something to be more profitable and more efficient for us. So that’s why we’ve changed. And then since then, we’ve actually taught this model we teach our agency model, and that’s been so much fun. I if there’s anything I do that takes my time right now. It’s teaching I I didn’t know how much I loved it. I you know, right now, it’s, it’s all this COVID stuff bouncing around and anybody with kids like me, we’re figuring out do we have to homeschool What’s going on? We’re horrible homeschool parents, but, but I love teaching us They’re entrepreneurs that it’s like I get to be part of other people’s businesses with out having it’s like having grandkids I think many grandkids yet, but I get to have them over and then send them away and go do great. And I’ll see you in a week, you know, right. Right.

Chip Griffin
So So tell me a little bit more about how you work with agencies. Because I think you’ve you’ve got an interesting model for how you do it.

Chris Williams
Yeah, so we do a an exclusive group. We do not mean exclusively mean we don’t do any one on one consulting. We only work in a group setting. So we take 15 agency owners at a time, and we do this in three groups a year I like to take the summers completely off because I want to hang out with kids but we we tend the dog Don’t forget the dog in the paddleboard. We take three groups a year or 15 agency owners and we take them through a process that allows them to scale up their profit margins and decrease their time our goal in the first section of that were together for a year, everybody starts the group and rolls in through a year. But in the first 12 weeks, our goal with that is to significantly increase typically, most folks in our group have doubled their profit margins, and cut their time in half within 12 weeks. And that’s, that’s not a pie in the sky or get rich, quick, it’s a lot of work. We also have my executive team, teaching their team members how to do that. I’m teaching entrepreneurs, my team’s teaching their team members. So we’re attacking this from all angles. So people who jumped in that group, they gotta be ready to make some significant change. And they gotta be really, really good after it. And then once they get, once they get those metrics hit, then they’re allowed to go into the second phase of our mastermind group, which is where everybody else collects once they finish that first phase of increasing profit, decreasing time because we can build sustainability there’s so much you can do with more resources, time and money, long term to make something just super cool for you and your community or however you want. To use your resources, you know,

Chip Griffin
now talk to me a little bit about the kinds of agencies that do best with this structure and how big are they? How old are they are, you know, what are their specialties? Those kinds of things?

Chris Williams
Yeah, all of these are digital creative marketing type agency. So copywriters, website builders, we have coaches and consultants that that work in a lot of spaces that are in that group. But just so they’re all marketing focused, it could be videographers, photographers, any ad managers, just that whole marketing sphere, anybody who’s connected to pushing their clients brands or products forward, you’re working digitally. Most of them have several years of experience and all of them have to at least have one key staff member, currently on staff. Most of them have several staff members that are either 1099 or employee doesn’t matter as but they have how you got to have help to make this work. If you anybody watching, you’re listening, if you want to actually start changing and growing as an entrepreneur, you Eventually, even though people are messy, and I’m one of them, I can talk about people because I am to. People are messy, but you eventually have to jump that gap and hire a person. That’s the only way you can grow something bigger than you.

Chip Griffin
Right? Yeah. I mean, if you’re not doing that you’re you’re effectively a freelancer, which is fine, right? If you right, you want to be a freelancer? That is, that’s a perfectly viable option. But it’s but the way you approach things as a freelancer are different than if you are looking to build an actual agency business. Mm hmm. And so I think being clear with yourself about what you want, I mean, you know, one of the things that I spend a fair amount of time on when I work with agencies is trying to figure out what does the owner actually want out of it? Because I’m always shocked at how little time they’ve spent thinking about that, you know, they because somebody or accidental agency owners, I mean, right now, I’m sure there are there are tons of accidental agencies being created. The owners don’t even realize that’s what’s happening. They got laid off from somewhere, perhaps. And so they’ve started to do a little bit of freelancing and eventually they’ll be able to start taking on innovation. work that they have to sub some of it out. And, you know, two years later Oh my God, I forgot an actual business here. But what am I doing with it? And and if you don’t if you’re not clear with yourself, you know, are you looking to maximize your money? Are you looking to sell it someday? Are you looking to to have the the 30 minute day 30 minutes a day gig, you know, whatever it is that you want, you can structure the business around it, but only if you know what you want.

Chris Williams
Yes, so true trip that chip and most people are really like kind of vague on that because they get into like you said they’re accidental. They just roll into it all sudden, a year later, they’re an entrepreneur, and inertia takes over. Yeah, but the design is so important and having that end goal. And if you think well, I only know what my end goal is just have the next couple of steps kind of view. And you can start steering the ship. We we think of that early stage of agency ownership when you’re just getting started may or may not have one person and you just really early on, think of it like pedaling a bike. So you’re you have a bike All of a sudden now, that’s a machine. That’s great. You built some processes, you know how to do your workflow, whatever bikes are more efficient than walking. And that process piece is super great. So have that bike, make sure you build your processes, like chip is telling you. And then adding a writer to that bike is like adding your first team member, all of a sudden, you can get off the bike, you can put someone else on the bike, and you can sit back every now and then and watch someone else riding your bike, which gives you that strategy and that ability to see what’s coming and think a little more about the design of what you want to do. And then once you figure out real profitability, you get your numbers right and you figure out how to really sell and how to really chase that market segment that’s going to pay the most. That’s like change, not the bike for a motorcycle, you got a rider now you got a motorcycle, this thing’s going and you’re still sitting over to the side though being that business leader that that chip talks about constantly and you’re able to watch the process. happen and when you can do that you can be so so strategic

Chip Griffin
now the folks who are in your group you know, what would you say are the biggest things that hold them back? I mean is it lack of process is it is it lack of planning is it is it just you know what what is it that’s holding the back? Mm hmm

Chris Williams
yeah, it’s a couple things typically it’s it’s not knowing either how to get the right leads. And that’s usually because they don’t they don’t realize why people are coming to them to begin with. And and that sounds like a well you got to build the know like and trust thing and you got to have a funnel and you got to know know, we build a process and you can too anybody can do this. Building a process not you chipping by listening to building a process of why people come to you and understanding what that is because every bit of communication you have every Facebook post you want to put out there every every client engagement call you have needs to be focused around why people are choosing let them choose you. That’s a process, right? It’s,

Chip Griffin
there is a reason there is you may not realize it, but there is a reason. And by the way, it is not your team. The number one reason agencies always tell me Oh, we get hired because we got the best team. baloney. baloney, because every agency says that, huh? So there’s another reason what is

Chris Williams
if you get hired, all of us get hired, because there’s a felt need, I feel and I don’t logically think, alright, even though I try to be logical, I feel that what’s going wrong or out of my control, or that’s going to get me where I want to go is something you’ve got. And if I feel that you’ve got it, and I can trust you, I will make a buying decision. It’s just that simple. The thing is, most of us as entrepreneurs, we think we know what the client needs, and we probably do because we’re experts, but we don’t realize that 10 steps before they even get there. There’s this little time want that they have. And that’s really all they’re trying to buy. Right? So we offer that to them. And then we can take them where they need to go. So people in our groups, they’re trying to figure out the the real logic behind the feelings that are going on with their market and put a process around that. Then they’re trying to figure out a closing process, something they can lean in on a script or something where they can do it over and over and over and measure what’s working, what’s not working in their closing process. Again, processes are something you can measure. And it’s so important that we have those. And then so it’s getting people in the door, the process, closing them, and then we get into workflow. So people start closing a bunch of deals at a higher profit margin ever great. But now they got a problem. It’s too much work. So we’re designing that proper workflow and bringing in key staff members as we need to, to help with that, really helping them get out of that, that bootstrapping place and into something where they can really just thrive. You know,

Chip Griffin
And I would imagine based on what you do you are you come down on the the pro niching side of the Oh, yeah, debate.

Chris Williams
You know, I hear that debate all the time. But here’s here’s my position on it. First of all, whatever you want to do that makes you happy. Yeah, you. But if you want to have a hyper profitable agency, you need to be really specific about what you do, or who you serve.

Chip Griffin
Or both. Ideally, both.

Chris Williams
Yes. And people argue, well, I I’m really good at websites, but I want to serve everyone. Okay, at least you’re focused on websites. Some people say I only want to serve air traffic controllers, but I do everything they need. Okay. But if you can narrow it down and get both those circles laying over each other, you are going to be in a sweet spot. You’re going to make more money, your team’s gonna be more focused your marketing or focus Your closing rates go up, every process you have gets measurable. It’s insane how predictable it gets. So that’s why I’m a nice guy.

Chip Griffin
I think that people misunderstand niching too, because they immediately think I need to specialize in a particular industry. And it may not be a specific industry, you can specialize in serving a certain kind of organization, it may not be a specific industry, but it may be, you know, organizations of, you know, 10 to 20 employees are my sweet spot who have, you know, no CFO or me as long as you can define tightly, who it is, and you can produce a relatively narrow list of those prospects. You’ve effectively niched

Chris Williams
absolutely, Yep. Yep. Just because we have a certain job title or a certain type of product we we build doesn’t make us necessarily the right niche. You got it. It’s, it’s who there’s, it’s not the thing. It’s not the type of business we serve. It’s the person that’s going to buy from you. That person is your niche.

Chip Griffin
Right. And and I think, you know, I We’ve sort of generalized to say that most agencies I think fails to succeed at the level they could because they’re selling the wrong stuff to the wrong people at the wrong price. And, and so the more that you can figure out those three things, you know, what are you selling? Including why, right? Because, you know, as you said, you know, you have to understand the problem that the clients actually trying to solve, they may come to you and ask for a website. They don’t really want a website, right? They want the results of the website, right? And, and you have to understand what that result is, and that’s going to be visiting it if you don’t understand that you can’t effectively build them a website. Mm hmm.

Chris Williams
searcher just like you and me, we, you know, none of us even though we we sell that kind of stuff and are done for you agency. I don’t want a website. I want clients, right. And if the website is the way to get there, great, but yeah, if I didn’t have to have a website to get clients, I wouldn’t have one right? We just want, right I mean, I don’t really want clients I want cash flow, and I don’t really want cash flow. I want a certain lifestyle. And I don’t really want a certain lifestyle. I want relationships with my family as we experience life. So what we’re really selling is an ability for our client to experience the life they want. And backing it up a website may help. But a website is not the end result. And when we lose sight of that, it’s harder to sell the websites.

Chip Griffin
So you’re saying that your clients don’t simply sit there at night and just kind of you know, stare at their the website that you built and just enjoy it?

Chris Williams
I hope not because when they do, they’re like, mmm, can we change fonts? No. But yeah, you’re right. They don’t they don’t admire that’s not their it’s not their kindergartener graduating from kindergarten. Right, right. Yeah.

Chip Griffin
Our open songs which would you prefer, goes back and forth day by day, it’s gonna make a huge difference. So far too much time gets wasted on on fonts and logos and all sorts of things that really don’t move the needle at the end of Not at all.

Chris Williams
Now, in fact, as an example of a logo thing, so our brand elite agency where we teach agencies like we talked about that logo for that brand, we have intentionally not built a professional logo. Because if you ever look at it, it says elite agency elite is in like a dark slate grey blue agency is in white, and it has a dark slate grey blue box around the word agency. We did that on a Google Doc. And we have used it Forever and always, and we about once a year it comes up, should we go and get a real logo? Maybe like no, we need to keep proving that you can be hyper successful and make a ton of money with a crappy logo you made in a Google Doc, because it’s so important for all of us as business owners to realize it’s who we are as business owners and communicators, not the shiny wrappers we put around ourselves that matter. Right?

Chip Griffin
Right. And how many agencies have come to you and said, You know, I would have worked with you. Except for that logo that just, I’ve never heard that you lost me at the logo.

Chris Williams
No, never heard it. And we asked each of our masterminds Hey, what do you think about our logo in like week six or something like that, cuz we start talking about this stuff. And I like oh, my gosh, it’s horrible. You need so much help with it? I’m like, exactly. And did it change your opinion of what we do? No. Okay. No, move on. Just tell the client don’t work on your logo.

Chip Griffin
Yeah. So as we sort of near the end of our time, together here today, what are you seeing right now in the agency space? How have How have you seen things changing amongst digital agencies? And I think, you know, digital is a little bit different than some other agencies because a lot of digital agencies are actually growing right now because so many folks have had to turn their eye from brick and mortar to digital, but it’s not that’s not across the board. But I’m curious what you’re seeing amongst the folks who are in your Facebook group and that you’re talking to?

Chris Williams
Yeah, so you know, when? early March 2020 whenever you happen to be listening or Watching this early March 2020, when COVID Canada really hit, everybody freaked out, then everybody wondered what was going to happen. And it took probably, at least for us in our experience, and we serve a lot of agency owners again, digital marketing agencies. It took maybe two months for that to settle. Some people were okay, but most people are just scared. And, and now it’s July 21. Now for the past, I’d say six weeks, it feels like to to us that COVID is kind of over emotionally for most of the people we serve in our industry. Now the one exception is if they’re if this marketing or digital agency is serving brick and mortars, like they only served restaurants or only fitness facilities or something. Then they’re having to retool and figure out but most of those have even figured out you know, there’s so much to do for the restaurant tour. In this market. It’s just learning how to communicate in a new way about a new set of needs and planning. To someone who owns a restaurant, right? The restaurants need us more than ever, right? If that’s your market more than ever, if they’re going to survive, and there are ways to help them survive. So I think people have, you know, after several months, began to get their head around that and that is the cool thing about and I’ll end with this chip and you go if you want to, but but that’s the cool thing about being an entrepreneur is, is all of us in this community right now. We get to lead the economy. We get to lead people forward with hope. We get to help someone see the opportunities that are in front of them. as things change, change happens. But the people who actually know how to see that change, take a chance go after a market and help that market grow. That is a gift to society and a gift to grandkids and a gift to every person out there because you’re keeping the momentum of the money you’re keeping the economy going. It’s it’s the little people like us who actually make the big changes and I love love having that opportunity and I know everybody’s watching listening that’s that’s that’s what we get to do it’s the coolest thing ever

Chip Griffin
right? Absolutely is and I really couldn’t have said it better myself so I guess we’ll end on that mic drop moment

Chris Williams
it’s mics are too expensive dropping mics it’s rare that

I get to have an episode you know packaged up just that neatly at the end I’d like to say it’s by design that I just I knew how to trail the questions just properly did to get us to that point but but thank you for doing that that was that was very helpful. If someone wants to learn more about you Chris or or the the mastermind, where can they find you? easiest thing to do in the world ship we you can follow me on Instagram or on Facebook, I would go to Facebook. Honestly the elite agency inner circle, elite agency inner circle is our Facebook group. I do free q&a in there multiple times a week. And that’s a completely free group. It’s only for agency owners, though that have at least a year of experience. So not just leaving their nine to five need a little bit of experience on your belt and it’ll be extremely relevant because we, we answer questions. If you have questions, we will answer them. Our goal is to make everyone more profitable. So you can make more money work less time. And we do it all completely for free in that Facebook group. That’s, that’s where I invest my free time.

Chip Griffin
Fantastic. Well, thank you for joining me, Chris. It’s been a great conversation. I think that listeners have picked up a lot from it and be able to apply to their own businesses and hopefully they’ll check out your your Facebook group and your other resources. So thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me, Chip. Again, my guest today has been Chris Williams. He has a dog and he likes to paddleboard.