How podcasts can help agencies and their clients (featuring Kelly Glover)

Getting results for clients and growing your agency using the most talked about communications medium today.
Kelly Glover

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Kelly Glover believes in the power of podcasting — and she has built her agency business around the medium. The Talent Squad books guests on shows, with a particular focus on promoting entrepreneurs and authors.

On this episode of Chats with Chip, Kelly shares her insights on podcasting with plenty of practical advice for agency leaders.

Chip and Kelly talk about the evolution of podcasting over the past couple of decades, as well as where it is going in the future. Kelly talks about how agencies can use podcasting to help grow their agency as well as deliver results for clients.

Resources

About Kelly Glover

Kelly Glover launched her media career as a Hollywood intern in 2001. She earned her stripes as an entertainment reporter, talent agent, and started podcasting in 2007. Kelly went on to host her own syndicated radio show in 2010 before transitioning into podcasting full time in 2014. In 2017 Kelly experienced the Jerry Macguire moment that led to The Talent Squad. With a single client and just one staff member, Kelly opened the doors to her boutique agency and hasn’t looked back. Kelly’s approach is less but better, radical candor, with a focus on harnessing individual prime productivity windows.

Transcript

The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.

CHIP: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Chats with Chip Podcast. I am your host Chip Griffin. And my guest today is Kelly Glover, the founder of The Talent Squad. Welcome to the show.

KELLY: Thank you, Chip. It’s a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me on the show

CHIP: It is great to have you and before we dive into the conversation, why don’t you share a little bit about yourself in The Talent Squad?

KELLY: Yes, so I run The Talent Squad. We’re a podcast guest booking agency and we book podcast tours for entrepreneurs and authors. And I’ve been in media entertainment for 20 years x radio host of my own syndicated radio show and got into podcasting in 2007 which I thought was impressive that I found that chip got into it into 1997. So obviously he is amazing, basically two plastic cups and a string is what podcasting was back then.

CHIP: It was it was pretty close to that and back then I had hair and because it was so difficult, I lost all of it. So but so Okay, so you know clearly you have A passion for podcasting is the is core to your business. So you are no stranger to a show like this is you’re thinking about podcasts and you think about agency owners who are listening, you know, how should they be thinking about podcast today? I mean, our podcasts replacing traditional media, we hear I mean, they’re written about all the time in the media now, right? I mean, it’s, you can’t turn left or right without seeing some story about how great podcasts are. But you know, are they here to stay? Or they have, I mean, just let’s talk a little bit about where you see podcasts fitting into the ecosystem.

KELLY: Yeah, so having come from radio, my view is different. And I’ve been booking podcast for six years running my own agency for three years. So a lot have changed has happened in that time. And the way that I see podcasting is that it’s a medium and the medium is here to stay, but the way it is used is changing and will change. So I think now, that podcast is acceptable PR pros are using it in the mix. I don’t think it’s going to replace anything as the bill and all standalone thing. But where podcasts used to be a little bit of a laughingstock, you know, a guy under a blanket in his basement talking to his mates about video games is how it was viewed. Even when I left radio, everyone was laughing at me. And now they finally come around going, Wow, it’s legit. And I’m seeing news reporters and all these celebrities pimp out their podcasts on huge broadcast to get people to listen to their show. So it has changed, but we’re in the mid in the middle of it. So to see where it’s going, I don’t think is possible. But I think it’s gone from being amateur to professional in the medium. But also what’s happened is people that have professional that have been service providers such as myself, and now seeing a deep professionalization with people coming and going, I want to pay for that part. Cost action. And for example, pitching podcasts without having a PR or media background and their virtual assistants. And then so that’s making it difficult within the industry as far as pitching goes.

CHIP: Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the things that you’ve touched on and one of the reasons why it has become more mainstream is because it’s a lot easier now, both to produce as well as to consume it and the consuming pieces key, right, because you joked about the tin cans and a string back when I got started, it was not only difficult to produce, it was difficult for people to listen back in the 1990s. Yeah, now it’s, you know, it used to be you. I mean, even 10 years ago, five years ago, you had to use special podcast software and you jump through hoops to get it and you had to figure out how to copy the feed over you know, now you can just use all these easy use podcast apps right on your phone, you’ve got it there. So it’s it’s much more accessible today.

KELLY: Oh, absolutely. And I was joking about that. Because when I started in 2007, it was a radio show you pull the audio off The logger and then cut out the ads and cut out the music. And I thought that was hugely difficult. It was six pages of instructions and like you said, the fade and hugely. And so with podcasting, the barrier to entry is low. Now, where before, if you wanted to be on media and get that earned media, you had to be somebody had to have a PR agency. You had to, you know, access that. But now anyone has their own media platform, or they can go on niche media, so it’s less broadcast and it’s more niche. So it’s really opened it up to anyone to speak on anything. And that’s the difference. You don’t have the gatekeepers and the barrier to entry of having someone to represent you. You can pitch yourself to podcast or you can just start your own podcast and build your own audience from scratch. That was not available.

CHIP: Now obviously, you spend a lot of time booking entrepreneurs and other experts to be on podcasts. What advice do you have for agency owners who may be looking to expand their own thoughts? Leadership footprint by probably initially being a guest right? Most people will be a guest before they’re ever hosting their own show. So, you know, how should they think about it? What you know what, what lessons have you learned in your years of running this business?

KELLY: Yeah, well, I suppose speaking to PR agencies different speaking to the general public or business owners because PR agents already understand the personal branding and positioning and messaging aspects. They know how to write those media hooks, they know how to pitch the media, but pitching podcasts is different. I know a lot of PR pros don’t do individual pitches to outlets and they’ll do a number of outlets. They’ll use cision, and lots of media databases and they’re dealing with journalists, but in dealing with who are professionals, and that’s what they do for a living, obviously. But with podcast, you’ve got to treat every outlet as an individual and they run by their own rules. So accessing those audiences. Oftentimes you are dealing with people they’ve not been in the media for 20 years that don’t have those Rules, they don’t have that standard practice. And they want to be pitched in an individual way. So you kind of have to treat them in a different way. podcasts are definitely different to traditional media. So as PR pros pitching them, you have to treat them in that way and understand their rules. So it’s a bigger, it’s a much more manual and personalized process, then pitching out a TV show that just gets pitched every single day and is used to it.

CHIP: And I think, you know, one of the things you said was that PR folks are used to putting together pitches and that sort of thing, and they are but you know, my experience is they don’t tend to be very good at pitching themselves. They’re very good at pitching their clients. But when they have to look inward, it becomes more challenging.

KELLY: Okay, then in that case, you need to treat yourself as your own client and go through that personal branding process. So look at yourself as a person. So how do you look how do you act? What do you say? How do you say it? What do you stand for who you associated with? are you presenting yourself in an authentic way? Or is it the shine? Instagram way that’s fake and no one’s going to buy it. What is your What’s your purpose? Are you What’s your Why are you resonating? Are you disconnected? Is your messaging clear? Is it confusing? How’s your positioning? Like? What’s your differentiation? For everyone else? are you different or you come across as generic? So I would treat yourself as a client in your personal branding, because that’s the thing that’s going to stay with you throughout your career as opposed to the agency. And then it’s obviously the platform, which is, are you visible or invisible, that you might represent other people? But if a producer goes and looks for you, where are you showing up? What’s your messaging across all your platforms? What do your photographs look like? Do you have instances of media that you’ve done where you’ve been on a podcast where you’ve done TV where you’ve got articles, and then what’s your consistency? So are you delivering Do you do one article a year one podcast a year are you busting that stuff out all the time. So as a producer, and PR like this If you’re a pro, you know this, if you’re an agency owner, you know this because you do it all the time. So you’re right. It’s just flipping it and looking at yourself that way. And then of course, the benefits of you going on a podcast to talk about your expertise, your clients and your agency, is you’re going to elevate yourself to expert status. And just like what you try to get for your clients, that’s the authority, the credibility, the reputation, you’re being known that influence it’s strengthening your personal brand. It’s, it’s all those things. And you’re accessing already curated audiences that somebody else has put the time, effort and money into making by doing their own podcast. So you’re leveraging that.

CHIP: Now, one of the things you said this music to my ears and advice that I always give as well, which is you need to treat yourself as a client, right as as an agency, you really need to eat your own dog food and practice what you preach.

KELLY: I saw that is the name of one of your podcast episodes. That was the title of the episode and it was and it was anything Know what perfect talk because that made me one I’m like, I need to listen to that one. I know what it means. But still, it was such a good title that that hooked me in and it was the bloody clickbait. And the channel is called, we say it must be clickbait that actually delivers because my god if I click something, and it lets me down, that really annoys me as anyone. And I have a little hack for how to treat yourself as your own client. This is something that I’ve learned over the years, either write it, write it down and get it all out on a piece of paper, but change the name. So instead of talking about Kelly Glover, could be James Smith, whatever it is, and then when you change the name, suddenly you can see it with a completely different perspective. It’s so basic, and then you’re like, Okay, I’ve got this client, Jane Smith, what would I do for her, and all of a sudden, something in your brain clicks, there’s a perspective change and you know exactly what to do. But as soon as you’re treating yourself as yourself, you can see the wood for the trees in my personal experience. And if you’re amazing for you and you’ve done it, you’ve hit the jackpot. you’ve nailed it. The only way I can do it is to think of myself as not as myself. And suddenly, the magic odd picture comes to light and I can see everything.

CHIP: Right? Well, that’s a great tip. Because, you know, everybody who’s listening to this show has some sort of communication skill pent up in them, that they’re delivering for other people, and you really just need to take advantage of it for yourself as well. So

KELLY: asking those basic questions, Chip, who am I speaking to? And what do I want them to do as a result of listening to me on this show? That’s the basic.

CHIP: Yep. So now, sort of, you know, flipping it around, you know, I know a lot of agencies are thinking about doing their own podcasts, a few are doing them. You know, what should you be thinking about before you go about starting a podcast for your agency?

KELLY: Again, I think it’s considering the end in mind. What is the purpose of that? Is it to get your thought leadership out there because in having your own podcast, you’re speaking to the same people over and over in your curate create. Let me try that again. You’re curating your own audience, as opposed to leveraging somebody else’s audience that’s already existing. However, if you create your own podcast, you’re then creating content. And then you can push it out over your own platform, you can break up that content, you can turn it into videos, you can turn it into memes, you can get quotes from that you can break it up and send it out in other ways. And if you have a frequently asked question, or a client coming to you, you can be like, you know what, I created a podcast about that. Here’s that episode. And then you can use that as a way to speak for you in something that you’ve answered over and over again, and they’ve got a 30 minutes deep dive instead of an answering a question by email. And then they’ve got your voice in their ears for 30 minutes, which is you’re replacing a 30 minute conversation explaining something with someone and expediting the steps for the for the next step and whatever that might be in the relationship with what you’re trying to achieve. So I think that’s where the benefit of podcasts are. It’s not about downloads. It’s not about fame. It’s about reaching the right people in the right way for the right reason. And that’s what I’m talking about podcasts as a medium. Rather than you need x downloads from x listeners to make x money. And it doesn’t necessarily be that it can be a medium, an audio medium to deliver the message to the people. So you can think how you thinking about a podcast and what does it mean to you. Also, for agencies, it can be the power of you’ve got the platform, and therefore you have the right to invite people onto your show that you may not normally have access to. So if you do have a prospect or someone you want to do a partnership with or have access to their audience or their network, that’s the perfect way to do that. So there’s lots of different ways to use podcast as a medium that isn’t getting audience and listeners.

CHIP: Right. Yeah, and I think you’ve made two excellent points there. The first is, you know, thinking about the the podcast recording as sort of the tip of the pyramid from a content perspective and then you, you take advantage of everything that you’ve recorded. You use it in other forms, you can convert it to articles, you can use the video of it, if you record the video, you can turn it into social media content. And it’s a really good way for agencies to get contributions from their team members, right? Because a lot of times if I go to someone in my agency and say, Hey, you know, I need you to write a blog post on this or that they’re like, oh, I’ll get to it. I’ll get to it. But if you say, Look, just Can we sit down record for 20 minutes, they’ll do a brain dump. And so now you’ve got all this great content from your own team.

KELLY: Yeah, you can pull it as transcriptions. You can turn it into blog posts, you can turn it into cup posts, you can turn it into LinkedIn like this, you know, we all know content creation, you can turn it into any number of things. And the other thing tip is, you can highlight your own clients on your show, because then it gives you you can hire out a studio, you can batch it, you can do it for half a day, once a quarter, whatever it is, and then you give them a beautiful experience, you can film that and that becomes a client case study, it becomes a testimonial. The client feels amazing because you’ve treated them to an awesome day. You’re showing that wins, you can show other clients. So again, podcasting, if you use it in your agency, it’s a tool for so many other things. So look at it as a medium rather than an outlet. Right? Yeah,

CHIP: no, that’s that’s great, too. And I

KELLY: don’t think people are doing that. I don’t I think they think it’s not nearly so. But I think if you flip, flip it and consider it in a different way, it will change. It really is an avenue to change your business that people are not considering.

CHIP: Yeah. And I think your point about using it as a way to have conversations with people who you might not otherwise have the opportunity, at least not be as easy to have that conversation. So you know, whether that’s trying to tap into some expertise, or targeting prospects or getting clients to open up or all sorts of different folks will say, Sure, I’ll do a podcast conversation with you that might say no to just getting on the phone and talking to you for 20 minutes.

KELLY: Yeah, and there’s nothing stopping you from putting an updating that podcast in your email, like think about how many thousands The emails we send, if you’ve got that email, if you’ve got that podcast episode in your email signature, people know that you have a podcast, they’re more likely Oh, what are they up to even if they’re just spying on you. So then that helps you within your own industry. And with podcasting, when you’re inviting someone in to do that, there’s so many other things that you can achieve.

CHIP: Now, how do you flipping back to the the pitching side of things a bit? As you as you’re out there pitching folks in your team as pitching folks? How do you see it as different from pitching traditional broadcast or traditional print media? Are you know, are the people that you’re pitching as professional and experience with being on the receiving end of a pitch? Are you pitching a lot of the hosts directly? Or you know what, what what can you advise people on when it comes to getting themselves or getting their clients as guests?

KELLY: I would say a lot of podcasts, business owners that are doing this in addition to their business, it is not their sole business. So it’s something that they’re doing in addition. So are they media pros? No, they’re not. And what I’ve found over the years is a bit amusing. But a lot of show hosts get annoyed when they get pitched. But to me, I’m saying that means your media outlet that means your success. If you put yourself out there, that’s part of the game, but they don’t necessarily have that understanding. The other thing is, unlike traditional media, where you’ve got deadlines, we’ve got a 24 hour cycle where, you know, publications come out at certain times. And you know, you know, the cycle. With podcast, every single one is an individual media outlet. So they may not look at the pitch, they might take time to get back to the pitch. If they say yes, then there’s a lag in between when it gets recorded. And then there’s a lag in between the recording and when it’s published, so that the cycle and the timeline is completely different, and you’re at the behest of every individual outlet. Now, there are podcast networks and they Do act more like the traditional media. And you’re able to, sometimes they’ll have one representative at a network that will look after multiple shows. And then some times it will be individual producers. And they’re more like the traditional TV producers that we know to deal with. But again, they’re dealing with people that may be celebrities that aren’t, you know, a local news network or a media outlet or a magazine, and they run to their own schedule, as well. So it could be three people before you get to the person. And they might be recording in Nashville or Los Angeles, or it could be remote. So there’s, there’s a lot more variables. But the thing with pitching is they want to be pitched individually. And they want you to have listen to the show and have reference to the show and be highly personal as opposed to pitching the person or the product. It’s more about pitching the audience for these particular shows.

CHIP: Right. Yeah. And I think that your point about sort of people wanting to particularly podcasts, I just want to be pitched properly, you know that, that you actually know what their show is and things like that. You know, I think that’s important. You know, as someone who hosts several podcasts, I can tell you that I get pitches all the time from folks who say, Oh, you know, I listened to the show. It’s fantastic, you know, and I’ll get someone to be a great guest. Except that one of the shows I get that for there are no guests ever. There’s not been one. You haven’t listened. Don’t tell me you listened.

KELLY: Yeah. So I’ve got a show that I stopped producing four years ago, I still get pitches. Yeah, I get pitches for shows that’s on a personal note. So that I don’t produce and then like, oh, there’ll be shows that have co hosts that speak amongst themselves have some I guess, it’ll be a show that just has women only and males will pitch the show. So that’s what I mean by deeper deep professionalization of the industry and people will go in I’ve got this awesome guest they’re amazing his where they’re great, without any consideration to the audience, the show or they might have two episodes ago had someone on who speaks to dentist that has an accent. And you offering the same thing. So again, PR what I want, and we’ll look at the back catalogue of guests, and figure out where the white space is and offer up something different and solution.

CHIP: Right. And I think it’s important that even though on the other end of the microphone, it’s often an amateur host doing their own booking, you still need to treat it like you would any other media pitch and make sure that you know, it’s appropriate. It’s on message all those things, right.

KELLY: Yeah, absolutely. And I think the follow up is hugely important in this in this arena. And because people hosts are getting pitched all the time, they don’t know what to do. Right? They’ll go from zero to I’ve launched a podcast to getting 10 pitches a day. Right. And, and they’re overwhelmed. So

CHIP: yeah, and for those, you know, listeners who may be hosting a podcast, you know, one of my tips would be put together a pitch page, you know, so that you’ve got something that explains what your show is, and what kind of guests you’re looking for. So when you get those pitches in, just send people and say, Hey, take a look at this page. I’ve got it right here, then they can sort of work through a process instead of you having to just Do gazillions of emails?

KELLY: Yeah. And that it goes both ways with that, as well chip, this shows and they will have an intake process. So you need to go through that process. Otherwise, they won’t consider you much like many other media outlets. And so the town’s got, we do one sheets that we also do online press kits as well, because we find that that’s just easier for the host where this everything in one spot. So I’m sure PR agencies do that for their own clients as well. But that’s something that we’ve found to be very beneficial. Because it just answers all the questions in one spot by having that online press kit.

CHIP: Right. Yeah. And I think the point that you made earlier about a lot of the hosts are doing this as a sideline to their main business or you know, it’s not the main thing that they’re doing, as it might be in traditional media. So making it as easy as possible for those hosts in those shows, by giving them that information in a nice succinct way is helpful.

KELLY: Yeah, and I think the other point is, unlike traditional media, podcasts are reliant on the guest also promoting leveraging repurposing the show in the content, it’s a two way street. Where is the today show, they don’t care. They don’t care if you’ve got an audience, they just want you on the show because you’re the expert. And or you’re the celebrity or you’re in the 24 hour news cycle that fits in with podcast. It also is dependent on so when they vet you and cross check, what other shows have you been on? What connections do you have? And what audience and platform do you have? So they can leverage that because having you on the podcast, or your client, whomever is a way for them to build their own audience because they’re all in building mode. They’re not Good morning, America. So they need to build their audience and you’re a part of that. So it’s holding up your end of the deal, whether that’s you as a guest or the client in helping build that show that’s implicit.

CHIP: Now, one of the things you had touched on a bit earlier was the how podcasts have all sorts of different lead times, you know, some turnaround shows very quickly, some sit on them, and do you know large batches of at a time and string them out for delivery. How does that impact your strategy? As far as getting it out to you just are you just sort of stuck with it? Do you have success in convincing host? You know, hey, we’re, we’re trying to do a push on this book in this particular time when we launch it, you know, how does that work?

KELLY: It certainly affects the lead time if someone wants to do a podcast too, and they’ve got a book coming out. So we have to do it well in advance. Something that podcasters have learned is the term hiatus. I don’t think they knew that. And they picked it up along the way. And so they’re like, oh, we’re on hiatus now. And they’ve also come to discover batching. So often, they’ll batch their shows, and they’ll be like, we’re not even looking at pictures for another two months, because they’re getting pitched so much, that they’re able to batch get ahead of the game, and then just take a big break because they’ll do a bunch of recordings, send it off to the editor, get it produced, line it up and push it out. So that hat does have an effect on the timeline. If you have a book authors will come to me Say, Hey, I want to get on 20 podcasts and my books coming out on Tuesday. Well, that’s not going to happen because we’ve got to get the pitch together, get the pitch out, get the host to say yes, then get it recorded and then push it out. So then the lead time, if you have a specific date does have to be well in advance. And again, podcasts are evergreen, they’re not working on the new cycle. So even if something is timely, unless it’s a news based show, the chances are they may not bump the content to fit the new cycle, because of the Evergreen nature of the show. So yeah, I would just say, be aware of that when you Yeah, it’s a long it’s a long play for this strategy, that’s for sure.

CHIP: Yeah. And if there’s there’s certain date sensitivity, it’s probably good idea to share that with the podcast host or their Booker. Sort of right away. Don’t Don’t later on say, oh, by the way, we this is really important that we have this in September.

KELLY: What Yeah, so I do the pitch and the things coming out on that time. If it’s possible. We would love to coincide With this launch and then of course it’s up to them if it works it works if it doesn’t it doesn’t but I’m always make the request always be up front with the request. I’m with podcast. The key is just to be upfront with everything and be really explicit. Because you can’t assume that anything is understood other than sharing the show afterwards.

CHIP: Right? Good communication is key Go figure.

KELLY: Yeah, and podcast we’re talking about all the the ways that you can push out the content. Another one is during the before and the after. People love seeing people with that behind the scenes, oh, I recorded this interview so you can do the pre promotion, you can do the screenshot of his me with my awesome headphones. We find that a lot of shows record in person in Los Angeles. So that also gives a great opportunity for his cool in studio content and taking your video camera along to do the pre recording stuff. So there are benefits to all the behind the scenes in addition

CHIP: Well, this has been really great Kelly, I think that listeners have gotten a lot of good insights into either hosting their own show or being a guest or having their clients be guests. And so I really appreciate you sharing all of that. If someone’s interested in learning more about you or the talent squad, where can they find you?

KELLY: TheTalentSquad.com

CHIP: that is very complex. And I’m not sure that people are going to usually remember that but but just in case someone can’t quite figure the talent squad dot com out, we will include that in the show notes along with other resources so that you have all of that and obviously you can get that just by visiting agency leadership.com. Again, my guest today has been Kelly Glover, the founder of the Talent Squad. Thanks for joining us.