What does agency business development look like now? (featuring Lee McKnight Jr.)

How revenue generation is changing and what the future holds
Lee McKnight Jr

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While most agency leaders spend part of their week dealing with business development, that’s what Lee McKnight Jr. and his team at RSW/US focus on all the time. Since he is out talking with and working for many PR and marketing agencies each week, he is in a great position to share how things look right now.

The Covid-19 crisis has certainly shaken up the agency world, and Lee offers insights on how sales and marketing is changing — and how agencies can make adjustments to help their own businesses.

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Transcript

The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.

CHIP: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I am your host Chip Griffin. And my guest today is Lee McKnight Jr. He is the vice president of sales for RSW/US, welcome to the show.

LEE: Thank you really appreciate it. I was very energetic wasn’t well, you know. Wow.

CHIP: Thanks. I’m trying to make up for that energy level here because you know, it’s it’s how we power through these days.

LEE: Totally now, sincerely Thanks for having me.

CHIP: It’s good to be here. It is. It is good to have you. And the topic is a really important one, because you are an expert in business development is what you do. And I’ll let you describe that more in just a moment. But it’s something that agencies really need to be focused on today, even though it kind of hurts to think about it, and it’s not comfortable. But if you’re if you’re not thinking about business development than when we get on the other side of this, you’re going to be in deep, deep trouble.

LEE: Yeah, yeah. No, that’s 100% true, it was. It was never easy to begin with. Right. But I think you I would hundred percent agree. I mean, now especially thinking about these next couple of months, and then and past that how you know how you’re going to accomplish it is pretty important right now.

CHIP: And we will get into all of that. But before we do, who the heck are you? And why are you here?

LEE: Yes, I’m the VP of sales, as you mentioned at our CW us and so we’re an outsourced Business Development Group. We solely work with agencies, PR firms, you know, marketing services firms that that world 15 years in business and for us, it’s, you know, we try to do what is true new business development in the sense of not just getting qualified meetings for our agency clients, which is critically important, but then always trying to ask the question or see how can we get you closer to actually closing the business. So it’s not just dropping a meeting in their lap and walking away. So what we’re trying to do is not just get those meetings, but the kind of a coaching counselor at the same time and try to help them get as far down that door as you know as possible.

CHIP: Right, so so more than just smile and dial

LEE: Very much. So we certainly strive for that, yes, there’s a lot of that out there. And I’m not trying to knock anyone but we’re, we truly are, for a lot. Most of our clients, we are all for all of them, we either are the team, because small to mid sized agencies are typically our sweet spot. But for others, they may have one individual, you know, who’s who’s in that place, or maybe a couple, and they tend to have to do everything from top of the funnel all the way through to, you know, pitching RFP responses. And so in those cases, we’ve become a part of, you know, of their team.

CHIP: And most PR and marketing firms, I would say, are uncomfortable with business development, even in the best of times. So we are now not in the best of times, correct. Um, so, you know, how is that impacting business development? You know, what have you seen changing, you know, recently and I know, you’ve been putting out a lot of great content, which will include links to our thank you in the show notes, because, you know, this is something that you guys have been really looking at closely, obviously, because it’s your bread and butter.

LEE: Sure. Yeah, it’s well, it’s it obviously, it’s a great question and one that, you know, as far as just from our perspective, thankfully, you know, well, first of all to say that it’s interesting because it seems like and I know you can attest to this every, it’s got to be frustrating in many ways, but specifically for new business every week, it essentially changes and agencies need to be thinking about that. And then just in a recent or latest video, which is just yesterday, I talked about the fact that, you know, there are certain things and I’d had a conversation actually with an agency. He’s on the Portland, one of the Federation, they’re not in Maine, but in Oregon, and we were going back and forth on LinkedIn and saying, okay, three weeks ago, when I’m, I can say I did the same thing. We were using language with the words you know, unprecedented, uncertain times unparalleled. We got to stop using those words pretty much because it’s starting to get people, you look the same as everyone else. And not to you know, it’s quite frankly, just a little bit lazy. Really at this point now that that can be tough because usually when you’re using that language, it’s not that you’re trying to be insincere. And in fact, probably just the opposite. But I think Unfortunately, it is almost a week to week thing now. So I think that that’s, that’s the first thing that that we always end with our new business directors is they, you know, they’re working with their agency clients on a weekly basis. Were going over things like that with them and talking about All right, this week. It’s Now thankfully we’re starting to see folks and I think that was part of last week to where we’re seeing states that are starting to reopen or they’re talking about it. So from a new business standpoint, a lot of clients and prospects for agencies they are thinking about, okay, what does this look like in the future you know, and that’s that’s where being a good partner being even a guide, dare I say a friend to your clients and I’m not to be all Kumbaya with that but, but it really is where, you know, you can show your prospects especially. Look, we’ve been helping our clients through the last month. This is how we can help you That’s been what’s really helped, you know, recently, and I think part of it too, and you, you had a blog post that was really good here recently, and one of the things that you had said was, you know, be human. And I’d said in this video, you know, this is where you truly need to be authentic. I do not like that word because it’s become so overused. And I feel like every influencer says that, but, but that’s why I like the way you phrased it better as far as being human, in the sense of this is not the time to try to go in with and it’s never been the time but like, I got an email three days ago, and the subject line was meeting follow up. I had never met this person, there have never been a meeting. Now. I shouldn’t be surprised by that. But I was just like, really now, this is what you’re doing. You’re trying to, you know, trick essentially trick me into. And so things like that just have never worked and they really don’t work now. Yeah, I

CHIP: mean, I think the people who were doing horrendous outreach three or four or five months ago, they took a couple of weeks off, but it seems like in the last a couple of weeks We’re right back to some of the just the really horrible pitching on LinkedIn and unsolicited emails where they try to direct you and make you think that you had a previous conversation or you know, the hyper aggressive you know, what, can we do lunch? What No, we can’t do lunch even if you put virtual and oh my god, come on. Oh, yes. Yeah, I mean, that’s that and and, and it’s, you know, I just I know I just emailed you about this a couple days ago and you’re busy Yeah. Cuz it was a stupid request. Plus, if you look at it and you did any research, I’m you know, I would have absolutely zero interest in what you’re trying to sell me. It’s crazy, but it really is. I think you’ve struck on something good there, which is the that it is changing week by week. And a lot of folks have joked that a week feels like a year right now. But but the evolution is like that because you know, in the in the first week of when everybody was shut down back in March, and it’s it felt like everybody had that shell shocked luck. It reminded me of of running a business after 911 And you know, for a week or two afterwards, people just kind of walked around in a daze for sure. You know, the difference here is and I think that this is what separates it from 2001 2008. Some of the other crises, is the degree of uncertainty. And I did a video recently about the real enemy isn’t the virus, it’s it’s the uncertainty that it’s causing. Yeah. Because if if we had some knowledge of what things were going to look like, even in broad terms, three months, six months, nine months down the road, we could plan for it. The problem is, we really don’t know. And even as you say, with states starting to open up, you know, we don’t we don’t know what that means. We don’t know if it’s going to be successful or if they’re going to have to pull back quickly. And, you know, until we know those things, it’s difficult for us to plan it’s difficult for agencies to plan and it’s really difficult for agency clients to plan.

LEE: Oh, it totally is. And yeah, I would hundred percent agree with you. I mean, the good thing is, and I’ll echo what I think you’d recently have was acquired. Smith on the podcast, and he had mentioned and thankfully we can echo his statement that our clients are still closing business. In the past three weeks, we’ve had several and and in the meetings thankfully are still happening now. Absolutely. are we setting these meetings? Maybe further out? Is it Well, right now we’d love to have this conversation budgets are what they are, they’re frozen, but but we know that they will be eventually but can we start a conversation on how you all might help us and so that that’s been positive. And I agree the LinkedIn selling up just to go back to that, but that’s been that’s like my cause it that is driving me crazy. that’s gotten worse. And I don’t know if it’s just like bots or what it is, but that LinkedIn cold selling and it’s it’s unfortunate because it’s hurting all of us who are trying to use it in a real way. But I’ve had some great over the last three weeks, LinkedIn has been more helpful than it’s ever been. But again, I’m sure like you it’s about trying to reach out and literally Hey, can we help you? And if the answer is no Or if it’s not then Okay, great. Well, you know, it was great to meet you. Let’s Let’s stay in touch and let’s hear some content we’ve been doing. And so I think, yeah, that that that’s interesting.

CHIP: I have to tell you on LinkedIn, I’ve gotten two of the craziest pitches I have ever seen anywhere in the last couple of weeks. One was from someone who is running some sort of a dating program for singles, married,

LEE: saw your homework. They’re good.

CHIP: Yeah. So and I don’t make a secret about that. It’s not like, you know, I’m not one of those people who hides my whole personal life and nobody really knows what’s going right. And, you know, I mean, I don’t talk about it all the time. But it’s, you know, it’s obvious enough to anybody who does some cursory research. And then the second one, ironically, was one about divorce finances. So between the two of them, I’m wondering what someone knows that that I don’t, you know, so I checked in with my wife just to make sure everything was good. And she hadn’t put me on some list. But it’s just it’s really It really is horrendous. And this does. Yeah. Yeah. And I do I and I’ve said this before, I think people do need to give folks generally a little bit more latitude in these times because people are, they are afraid they’re worried about their own well being their own finances. And so, yeah, some people are getting more aggressive because they’re desperate. And so I do always want to give people the benefit of the doubt at the same time. It doesn’t excuse all behavior.

LEE: Yeah, no, I agree. And, you know, I think now one of the things that that I talked about with an agency owner in the last week or so, and I see it every day. One thing that is one thing agencies and PR firms do that they all need to do like now, I think, is when I part of my job is I’m reaching out every day, I’m prospecting myself for our company to bring on agency clients. And so as you might, I’m sure, like, you know, I see a lot of agency sites and LinkedIn, home pages, and I’m seeing far too many that are either on LinkedIn completely blank, or on these agency sites. They mentioned nothing about what’s going on. Right now, and I think it’s very easy and anyone listening, if that’s you right now, just go and have one message that you put up there, or just one sentence on your site. I’m certainly not gonna sit here and advocate, well, you need to be doing about five different pieces of content a day. I mean, that would be fantastic. And there’s tons of firms that are doing that, and kudos to them. I mean, a lot of firms have stepped up and doing a great job with that, but I get it, not every firm is gonna be able to do it. They don’t maybe they’re not comfortable. They don’t have the time. They’re going through a really hard time right now. But if possible, at least so you your prospects can see that, hey, we’re active. We’re helping our clients right now. Because if it’s blank, or on LinkedIn, where all you see is a seven month old posts, and it was like something where you were out doing something or you know, just to be tone deaf in that way is easily fixed. And that was one thing that I’m still seeing a lot of and I hoping you know, I’m trying to tell folks at very least try to try to do that. It’s pretty simple.

CHIP: Yeah, absolutely. And it again, it is it is tough, because they’re, they’re probably fighting fires on many fronts, but at the same time For sure you do need to start thinking about the future and where things are headed. And before we I want to spend a little bit more time talking about that future. But before we do, you had mentioned something that I’ve seen as well. And Carl mentioned, as you, as you indicated, that agencies are still closing business. From my perspective, most of what I’m seeing are things that were already in the pipeline or under discussion, prior to all of this with the exception of some folks who were working in in crisis or helping out some of the healthcare folks who are particularly impacted. But are you seeing new business that that’s come in, you know, the first contact was in the past six or eight weeks? Or is it? Are you also seeing that it’s mostly things that hadn’t started in discussion earlier?

LEE: a good chunk to your point was something that might have been in the works. Having said that, yeah, as I think about it now over the past three and four weeks now, granted, it’s it’s well, you know, it’s only been what, well, five to six weeks now, but

CHIP: it feels like forever.

LEE: It does. I’ve been calling it Bizarro dog years because it just doesn’t make i did i

CHIP: funny, I said the same thing I said, Now we know how dogs feel. Yeah.

LEE: But, um, but I would say about it’s been a good maybe 20 to 30% that have been something newer and what that has been a lot of is either almost more consulting in nature, certainly a lot of digital in nature where where these companies are willing to do something now for what’s happening now. It’s a quick turn project or for there was a couple of the kind of more consulting like gigs if you will, that were pretty decent size and and those are still going on, but I it’s a blend, But to your point for sure where we are now has been, you know, this was in the pipeline. You know, now it’s opening up or we’ve got some budget and we need to finish this What have you But yeah, I think that’s a fair. It’s a good question, actually. And I

CHIP: think the digital people who are helping particularly with digital transformation type issues, you know, trying to get a brick and mortar business to have more of a digital presence. You know, those are certainly I think seeing an uptick, because you’re, you know, there there is an immediacy to that need. You know, one of the things I’ve seen with a lot of my clients, and frankly, even my own business is a lot more productive conversations about future new business. So, yes, you know, it’s much easier now to get people to have the conversation. They’re much more interested in thinking about, okay, what do I need to do? I think it is slowing down the actual clothes, but it’s it’s accelerating the conversations.

LEE: Yeah, I would agree. I mean, it is a slower process now for sure. And that’s inherently I mean, if we can, if there was just a process, that’s good, you know, yes,

CHIP: absolutely.

LEE: Yeah. And that’s what we’ve been counseling clients, you know, and they know, I mean, they get it and I think, for sure, going back to that week to week changing, I think, definitely, you know, folks, generally now, you know, that we’re entrenched. We’re looking towards the future. We’re trying to plan to your point earlier. There’s certainly still That uncertainty. Um, but you know, I, I think it’s something where we know it can’t stop. And, and it’s just again, changing up that messaging every week to make sure that, you know, you’re, you’re in keeping with everyone’s psyche as best as you can.

CHIP: Right. And you can’t turtle I mean, you really do need to be out there and continuing the conversations too, to see where you know where you can advance them to, until the point where you get some degree of certainty or people say, screw it. I know things are uncertain, but I can’t just, you know, keep treading water. I need to take some steps anyway.

LEE: Yeah, and for us, I mean, we got we would do this. Thankfully, our president name’s Mark Snyder, he started the business 15 years ago. I’ll be here. While I’ve been here. 12 years is we always had predicated our prospecting and our discipline, our methodology, whatever you like to call it, this point, all three has been predicated on we got to reach out with some kind of value because we’re representing our clients in their name or part of their team will be respectful these prospects but also speak their life. And so for us right now, part of that messaging week to week is looking at each vertical, right? So because we had folks who are in, you know, heavy in the tourism space, for example, in events, and God bless them. I mean, of course, they’ve been very hard to hit. We’re not stopping prospecting for them. But absolutely there, we’ve got to be extra careful. And with that language and speaking to future, we know, what do we see happening? What do we see out there in the market? And so, you know, trying to be more of a guide, and a help and selling to them, which is tough to do. I mean, it’s without a doubt, but that’s important. You got to look at each one of those.

CHIP: And have you seen any significant changes in the approaches that are working right now versus you know, what it worked for you as far as setting up meetings?

LEE: Yeah, I think six months ago. Yeah. It’s interesting. So a lot of it, thankfully, is still still working. I mean, it’s it’s multiple touches. What we are big proponents of is using every platform, you know, in concert, with each other, so six months ago, most certainly that was phone it was email. It was social where it makes sense, which is often LinkedIn. Right. And we’ve always kind of had some kind of we’ve always had success with physical mailings. Which you have some younger digital firms who will, you know, come on board and be like, really? Is that something we should be doing? The answer is well, yes. Because it’s such an uncluttered space. Exactly, yeah, we always include a handwritten letter with it. And it’s a good icebreaker. And then it just is not something people are still getting. So while it’s kind of old school, that had always been a tool in the toolbox. Well, as you might imagine, now, we’re taking that vertical by vertical and client by client saying, okay, does it make sense to be mailing things right now? And for a lot of that, the answer’s no. And that’s fine. So it’s interesting how the phone has become even more important, which, to be fair, that makes agencies kind of cringe a lot of them right, because it’s obviously a lot easier, send an email. But getting on that phone right now is important. And again, you want to be careful, but most everybody it’s being forwarded to their cell. And just We just had a talk with with our salespeople here yesterday well it was several of them and trying to be careful making sure you’re using those multiple touches because being forwarded to their cell some folks, you know, might be somewhat surprised by Wait Wait, who are you again? So it’s it’s making sure you’re not just drilling away in the phone over and over just sending emails and when you vary those touches you know for us that’s what we’ve always done but I’ve got mailing component obviously right now is maybe on hold for a lot. But otherwise, that’s what I’d say out of out of all of this as the phones become more important than ever. Really.

CHIP: Hmm. And are you finding it easier to get people on the phone now? Yes, generally? Oh, yeah.

LEE: We are we are and that’s where we just have to be careful. And you know, to be like, we always are respectful and get right to the point no one has time to hear your spiel, you know, it’s it’s, you know, so, but yeah, it has been and that’s that’s at least been a good thing as far as you know, as far as that goes for prospecting for agencies.

CHIP: Now, if an agent He comes to you and they haven’t been working with you previously. So this is your their first interaction, you know, what are what are you giving them as far as advice right now, you know, how, how should they be thinking about working with a firm like yours to deal with the, the challenging times or whatever we want to use as the phrase of the day.

LEE: Right? Right. You can’t help you. I said that earlier. You can’t help but use some of it. And that’s okay. Because I find myself now writing like, ah, I got,

CHIP: like people who complain about buzzwords, they become buzzwords because they actually do indicate what you mean. It’s a shorthand, you don’t have to say, well, in these times because of the COVID-19 devices, right. So short handed. So

LEE: yeah, I think Yeah, I’ve seen there was one agency owner i’d saw the other day. He’s like, okay, we’ve acknowledged all that. Now. Let’s move on, I think, you know, which I agree with, for the most part, but it is tough, because I’ll find myself like, Okay, I think it’s okay to say here. But yeah, I mean, to answer your question. I mean, it’s interesting. It’s, as I’m reaching out, we’re reaching out we know, there’s just some firms hoo, hoo hoo. aren’t going to be able to work with us right now or a firm like ours, and we totally get that. And so a lot of what I’m doing is okay, we know you can’t right now, here, you know, we have a resources page you put together, we’re doing a lot of content where if nothing else, try to do it internally don’t stop, ideally, and folks like yourself, Chip and other, you know, folks out there, whether they be true consultants or whatever, you know, whatever they fall into, as far as that category, we’re trying to push them to everybody and I think they appreciate that it’s, we get it if you don’t, you can’t work with us right now. Please try to do something and at least take baby steps and then but you know, in terms of working with someone like us or working with us, it’s we’re trying to make it as easy as possible to come on board. You know, we had a process in place of about a three or four week ramp up, we’re trying to make that you know, a little bit quicker where we can, we’re trying to be as flexible as we can to be able to jump in and either help folks right now, or a lot of are saying you know, we we need to be thinking about how we can do this maybe work with you all, in the next four to six weeks, what would that look like? And so I think it’s a lot of that is just about and you touched on it, and we did earlier, it’s a lot of that planning right now. And I think, while planning is key, you also have to be taking action. And I think for us, what we’re trying to do is just help them either tactically, you know, when we just try to give them tips, one of them just the other day, we were talking with an agency owner, and, and I put it in one of our videos because like, you know what, I’m gonna use that if you don’t mind. And it’s, you know, what, not everyone wants to zoom right now. It’s a it’s a minor thing, but it’s like, Don’t try to force everyone’s doing it now. And actually, I love it. I think it’s great. We’re doing it right now. Yes, um, it’s a great way to have I’ve had more face to face meetings with agencies than I ever have now. And that’s great. But there’s a lot of prospects who like if I have to zoom one more time, I’m in my bathrobe right now, I want to stay that way. When we just have a phone call, you know, it’s like, give them the option. You know, it’s little things like that. And it’s little things like updating your site or your LinkedIn page. You know, those, those are the types of things that we’re trying to put forth, whether they work with us or whether they’re, you know, they’re just trying to do it themselves.

CHIP: One of the things that I’ve been trying to encourage agencies that I talked to, to do is to develop a point of view for what they see as the future for the verticals that they’re serving, or the services they’re providing, or those sorts of things. Because I’m, I am in the camp, that that this is the changes that are coming about because of what’s going on right now. Many of them will stick around. You know, in the past, we’ve seen some of these economic crises where things revert mostly to normal, even I remember in the days after 911, I was running a business back then, and everybody said, Oh, my God, the whole world’s gonna change, it’s never gonna be the same. And with the exception of some security measures that should take place that take place in buildings and airports and those sorts of things. You know, there wasn’t a ton of change that actually took place. After nine. I think this is different. I think this is more like the Great Depression where there’s lasting psychological scars and growing up, I always could tell someone who had great Growing up during the Great Depression just because of some of their behavior characteristics. So, you know, I think it’s important to start to try to think about what those changes are as an agency for the sectors that you’re serving. But what do you mean? Do you have a perspective yet on what you think is this changes as far as agencies go and how they interact with clients or how they develop new business or any of those things? Or is it you think it’s still too early?

LEE: I think it’s a little bit too early. I mean, I wish I could say I disagree with what you just said. Unfortunately. I think it’s probably true. Um, I think it is a bit early. I mean, I wish I wish I had a good definitive answer. I mean, I think one of the things I will say what I’m what I am seeing many agencies do and I thought it was a great point of perspective agency owner out of DC she was very kind and it actually I we had been just emailing on on you know, here’s what we do and what she’d said, You know, I saw one of your videos and you know, we doing six or seven things right now. To plan for the future, and if you want to know what they are, feel free to use them as like, please do. And one of the she did. And one of the great things was talking about right now you have some staff, and they’re probably the younger staff, maybe not all, but that, you know, maybe aren’t doing the billable work. So what they can be doing is how can you help them in terms of new business? What can they be doing where they feel like a valuable part of the team, you’re still using them? Ideally, I know, for some agencies, that’s going to be tough, but it’s using them to do things like case studies, you know, like updating the site, like creating some content. And I thought that that’s great. I mean to because we’ve always tried to get your new business should be an agency wide endeavor. And that can be very hard because it’s like, Well, wait, not everyone’s doing it. Of course they’re not but really everything they’re doing truly does provide for that new business. But this is a time when you can literally have them help. And it’s going to get them to know the firm, even better, you know, they’re part of this now. So I think what I’m hoping is that is another type of silver lining. Where the agencies that are really doing that right now are at least trying. It’s going to bring them closer together again without being kind of Kumbaya. But But apart from that, I mean, I, I kind of agree in terms of what you threw out there. It’s a bit. It’s a bit early, but I think the next couple of weeks are going to be well, you can say that about every week over the last month or so. That’s when it’s really going to be interesting with with some of the the reopening. Right, I think that’s when we’re going to see an agencies are going to be able to at least start to make more concrete plans based off what their clients are doing. I mean, we’ll see. Right, but I think that’s, that’s kind of the next two weeks are gonna be really interesting as far as that goes.

CHIP: Yeah, it’s, uh, you know, it will be interesting to see what takes place. I think that, you know, one of the challenges they have with the reopening says is it, as far as I understand from the data standpoint, most of the real data about how it’s working from a health standpoint, it’s going to take probably a month or so before it actually, yeah, percolate. So there’s there’s going to be a lag there, which could create its own set of issues, but you know, we’re going This is not a public health show. We’ll we’ll let someone else deal with all of that. Oh, gosh, yes, public health and politics are not things that we want to do. But you know, but from from an agency perspective, you know, there are things folks have to be thinking about, like, you know, when their jurisdiction opens, are they going to open their offices? You know, for sure, because there is and not just for agencies, but for agency clients, there is a question as to what’s allowed and what you choose to do. There are businesses right now that are allowed to be open, and they simply choose not to be, yeah, or, you know, all sorts of different reasons. And so, you know, that’s going to be a factor in the decision making. Agencies are also going to have to confront the fact that with lots of people getting laid off from companies and brands, there’s going to be a lot more independence out there, which means you can tap into that as an agency from a resource perspective, but it also means you have new competitors, potentially, and out of almost every economic crisis, you have people creating new businesses, so there will be new agencies created out of this as well. It’s really gonna change the Agency Leadership Podcast don’t know all how

LEE: we don’t, we don’t. And I think the ones who have been creating content and have been out there in you know, more of a human way and more authentic way, going back to kind of where we started, they’re gonna be the ones I think you’re gonna be set up for success, because you’re right, there’s going to be the good part of that is that there is going to be a lot of new, whether it’s agencies, whether it’s to your point independence, but there’s going to be just as many who are going to try to jump on some kind of bandwagon and, you know, make it more cluttered for the rest of us, if you will, not to put ourselves in any kind of pedestal. But it’s, it’s always interesting, but you’re right. I mean, I hope that there is a lot we see more vitality, or at least some some some new things happening that would be positive for all of us, really.

CHIP: And so I’m glad that we’re coming to an end of this episode on a positive note, are there any additional words of wisdom that you would offer to agency leaders as they’re thinking about business development in these times?

LEE: Yeah, I think it’s this this can be true no matter where we are in our world and our headspace, I mean, as far as this new business goes, you’ve got to do it. And that sounds like no kiddingly. But I think the biggest obstacle has always been and still continues to be is that a lot of agencies, especially small and mid sized agencies, maybe they’ve tried to, you know, hire someone internally and it hasn’t worked. Or they try to do it themselves. And almost always, they bite off so much more than they can chew and baby steps. That’s what we all you know, always say, baby steps, you don’t have to go out and purchase a ton of software or go out and, you know, just do try to set a plan that seems manageable and just try that for one week. You know, just focusing on 20 prospects and that you nll agencies are like God, that’s, that’s, that’s nothing, I’m like, Well, sure. But if you don’t start somewhere and start small, you are going to burn out so quickly, and you’re not going to have the patience to do it. So that’s I think, if there’s anything else right now, it’s it’s that and it’s also just a look at your messaging every week, you know, and try to try to keep an eye on and be aware of what’s going on. Right.

CHIP: Yeah, I mean, all we can do right now is take it one day at a time and take it one day at a time and just keep having conversations. You know, I firmly believe that the good things will come from that. Yeah, I agree. I agree. So if someone wants to learn more about you, or RS Ws, where should they go?

LEE: Sure, sure. No, thanks. It’s just the websites easiest is Rswus.com. And we have a Resources tab there. And we’ve been doing a lot of compiling all the resources over the past month that we really hope ours and others, like yourself, Chip. So you know, I would encourage the HDS are looking, that’s it, that’s a good place to try to get help. And, you know, we try to create content on a weekly basis that,

CHIP: you know, that can help them and it is great content. So I would certainly encourage folks to check it out. Thanks, particularly these times. They’re, they’re really good resources being created that I think will will help all of you as you look to get onto the other side of this current crisis. So with that, my guest today has been Lee McKnight Jr. and I appreciate his time and I appreciate you all listening and we’ll be back with you again for another Episode real soon